True North

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Posts by True North

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  49

  HEY, NO LIGHT SABER??

  by Leolaia in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  .

  poor leolaia became a jedi and no one noticed.. when do i get my light saber?

  or do i have to turn to the dark side to get force lightning instead?

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  True North

  Leolaia,

  So, how did a nice young ex-JW lady like yourself become such a hardcore fan girl and meet all these fascinating people?
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  35

  Did the second-class status of JW women ever bother you? Does it now?

  by True North in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  if the jw organization were considered a normal business operating without the protections of being a religion, it obviously would have to make some big changes in order to avoid being sued out of existence for sex discrimination.

  i wasn't raised to think that women should be relegated to second class status or that they should have less opportunities than men or be relegated to a limited set of life roles.

  however, when i became a jw, i freely accepted all the sexist nonsense that came with the territory without ever being bothered by it.

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  True North

  Marriage among most of these cultures was an exchange of property between men, with the woman having little if any say in the matter, and this survives today in the custom of the brides father "giving her away" to her husband.

  gaiagirl,

  I hadn't really thought about that one before. (No surprise there: I'm sure there are a lot of things I haven't thought about that I should.) That is kind of a strange one, isn't it; the groom is certainly not "given away", is he? I also doubt that most American brides these days who include this ritual in their wedding ceremonies have really thought much about what it implies or what its origins or significance must have been. Kind of makes me think of the Shirley Jackson story "The Lottery".
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  49

  HEY, NO LIGHT SABER??

  by Leolaia in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  .

  poor leolaia became a jedi and no one noticed.. when do i get my light saber?

  or do i have to turn to the dark side to get force lightning instead?

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  True North

  Cool, huh?

  Very cool! BTW, who did the 1T1H3X8 ("THX1138") license plate belong to -- George Lucas?
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  22

  Astronomy: Three Dates: A Young Witness

  by Duncan in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so, taking those title elements in reverse order: the young witness is me ?

  this story goes back to the early sixties.

  the three dates are: february 1986, august 11th 1999, and june 8th 2004. it's the fact that the last of those dates is , after all these years, finally nearly here that made me think of writing this post.

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  True North

  Duncan,

  What a good, well told story -- a little bittersweet, of course, but well done.

  Say, is there a University or research facility in your area that's equipped with the right observational equipment for the transit? Maybe if you contacted them and told them about your childhood connection with E.A. Beet's book and what he said about looking forward to A.D. 2004, they'd let you and your boys come have a look on the big day.

  Thanks for sharing this with us.

  Best wishes,

  True North
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  45

  Bullied into quitting my job?

  by Nosferatu in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hey all.

  lately, i've been recieving heat at work for not doing my job.

  i was hired to assemble, repair, and test electronics.

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  True North

  I was hired to assemble, repair, and test electronics.

  "You will then deposit the garbage bag in dumpster."

  Wendy's....I'm fully trained there, and they're always hiring people.

  Dude, you need to work on developing some marketable job skills and credentials! You're getting married? Make sure you get this taken care of before you have kids.

  When I became a JW and got married, I dropped out of the University I was attending and became a janitor. I must have been the world's worst janitor -- I was so unsuited for it. Finally I wised up and got a student loan and went to a tech school for a year. (Going to school all day; doing janitorial all night; meetings and field service on top of that; man that sucked.) Thankfully I got my certificate and got a job before the kids started arriving, otherwise I would have been totally screwed.

  If nothing else, how are you at dealing with people? You seem to do a good job at communicating and putting over your viewpoints on this forum -- can you do that in person? If you've got the people skills and resilience for it, commissioned sales can be very rewarding. That's one profession where employers often don't care so much about credentials; they just want results and pay accordingly. It's the kind of job where you can even end up making far more than your "boss". You have to be right for that kind of work, though. (I'm not but I've known people who are and they've done very well for themselves.)
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  35

  Did the second-class status of JW women ever bother you? Does it now?

  by True North in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  if the jw organization were considered a normal business operating without the protections of being a religion, it obviously would have to make some big changes in order to avoid being sued out of existence for sex discrimination.

  i wasn't raised to think that women should be relegated to second class status or that they should have less opportunities than men or be relegated to a limited set of life roles.

  however, when i became a jw, i freely accepted all the sexist nonsense that came with the territory without ever being bothered by it.

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  True North

  If the JW organization were considered a normal business operating without the protections of being a religion, it obviously would have to make some big changes in order to avoid being sued out of existence for sex discrimination.

  I wasn't raised to think that women should be relegated to second class status or that they should have less opportunities than men or be relegated to a limited set of life roles. However, when I became a JW, I freely accepted all the sexist nonsense that came with the territory without ever being bothered by it.

  Thankfully, I'm over that now and back to having my original, decent attitudes and beliefs regarding women's equality. However, it just seems so strange to me that while I was a JW I could so easily suppress my former views and adopt new ones that I now, once again, find reprehensible.

  How about you. Did the status of JW women ever bother you when you were in the org? Does it bother you now? Do female JWs tend to view this differently? If you had daughters, did it ever trouble you that they couldn't have equal status?
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  28

  A question for the Athiests....

  by desib77 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have a question for those who do not believe in god.....how do you feel that life came to be?.

  i'm certainly not criticizing anyone's beliefs.

  i'm just trying to figure out what i believe and am curious about all viewpoints.. desi

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  True North

  I have a question for those who do not believe in God.....how do you feel that life came to be?

  Well, I don't disbelieve in God and I don't feel confident that I know how life came to be but I do have some comments that I hope are apropos.

  The physical evidence for evolution seems pretty convincing as far as I've looked into it as does the theory's explanatory power. I realize that it doesn't offer a first cause -- where did all the original matter come from that became the raw material for biological evolution -- but, then, I don't think it's really trying to address that or that it needs to. As for the first cause argument, I've often thought that if we say that everything requires a first cause then God does as well, while if we say that something doesn't need a first cause, then it might as well be the universe as God. I don't know how valid that argument is but as far as I've thought about it, it makes a certain amount of sense to me.

  Will I ever feel more confident in the ultimate answers to questions of cause and creation? I don't know. Sometimes, I wonder if I really can, if I -- if we -- have the mental capacity to grasp it all. Years ago I saw a science fiction film directed by John Boorman and starring Sean Connery titled Zardoz (as in WiZard of oz). It presented some characters who had achieved physical immortality via science. As I recall, one of these characters stated that when first they'd achieved immortality, they were certain they would use it to unlock all the great secrets of existence but after long, long effort they'd finally had to admit defeat because mentally they just weren't up to it no matter how long they had. However serious the movie was or wasn't, I do think that is a pretty good issue it raises.

  BTW, WT teachings to the contrary, many Christians see no contradiction between their faith and their acceptance of evolution as a fact, as God's way of taking care of business as it were. In fact, as I understand it, Pope Pius XII stated in 1950 in an encyclical that while he wasn't endorsing evolution, he didn't see it as being in contradiction with Christianity so long as it was viewed as God's indirect method for creating man's body but that the soul came directly from God. More recently, Pope John Paul II stated that the position of his Church on this had not changed.

  Along these lines I would very highly recommend the book Finding Darwin's God by Kenneth R. Miller. Mr. Miller is both a professor of biology at Brown University and a practicing, believing Christian (Catholic it would seem). He has often publicly debated professional creationists -- whom he finds in varying proportions ill-informed, illogical, and sometimes dishonest -- and in the first part of his book, he addresses the arguments of various strains of anti-evolution creationists. In the latter part, he presents his attempt at reconciling evolution with Chrisitanity, free will, etc. Very interesting, very good stuff.
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  20

  Do the Sadduccees deserve to be seen in a more favorable light?

  by True North in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  does anyone remember the old joke about the sadduccees, that they didn't believe in the resurrection and that's why they were "sad-you-see"?

  i think that on the whole, the sadduccees get pretty bad press from both jews and christians and i've often thought that maybe they don't entirely deserve it.

  i know that they are said to have been "the establishment", collaborating with the romans and trying to keep a lid on the trouble being stirred up by the pharisees, the zealots, and the assorted messianic movements in order to preserve their own privileges and status.

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  True North

  English Patient,

  Isn't there some inconsistency between the start of your last post and the end of it? You begin by stating that "Jews are a racist race." Yet at the end you say "The facts remain that the Talmud is a racist religious textbook that is taught to practising Jews across the world." It's one thing to condemn a religious sect for anti-social teachings and the effects of those teachings on its members -- and I think that all of us ex-JWs here have personal experience with such teachings and their effects -- and another thing entirely to condemn people because of who their ancestors were. It's the latter practice that is in accord with "Nazi propaganda."

  I don't know if the passages you cited are actually in the Talmud; I haven't read it and don't plan to. Have you read these passages there in their context? Not that I would be shocked to find that such passages are there; any "groupism" that divides the world into "us and them" (or especially "us against them") does tend to produce such sentiments to a greater or lesser extent. But these days, are all parts of the Talmud considered to be of equal importance by those who read and follow it?

  You said it is taught to "practising Jews": What about Jews who are not practicing? I don't know what the current state of affairs is, but many years ago I was given to understand that even in Israel only about half of the Jews were considered "religious." Would you blame the non-religious Jews for what it says in the Talmud?

  Who does study and try to follow the Talmud in its entirety these days? I'm pretty sure that Reform Jews don't, or most American Jews for that matter. Do Conservative Jews? I suspect not. Do Orthodox Jews or "Ultra-Orthodox" Jews? I'm not so sure. I think some may, but I'm not sure how seriously they would view such passages as you cited. If they take them literally to heart, then shame on them. That is wrong.

  BTW, one of your excerpts did catch my eye: "If a Jew is tempted to do evil he should go to a city where he is not known and do the evil there. (Moed Kattan 17a.)" I recently saw an Israeli-made "indie" film about a young rabbinical student who is being troubled and distracted from his studies by sexual urges. One of his rabbi instructors advises him to do exactly this, to go to another city where he is not known and consort with prostitutes to get it "out of his system", which he proceeds to do thus setting the scene for the rest of the movie.
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  20

  Do the Sadduccees deserve to be seen in a more favorable light?

  by True North in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  does anyone remember the old joke about the sadduccees, that they didn't believe in the resurrection and that's why they were "sad-you-see"?

  i think that on the whole, the sadduccees get pretty bad press from both jews and christians and i've often thought that maybe they don't entirely deserve it.

  i know that they are said to have been "the establishment", collaborating with the romans and trying to keep a lid on the trouble being stirred up by the pharisees, the zealots, and the assorted messianic movements in order to preserve their own privileges and status.

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  True North

  English Patient,

  Who tells Jews these things? Where?
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  2

  Women barred from foot-washing ritual

  by True North in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  faithful decry foot-washing ban of women .

  thu apr 8,11:14 pm et add u.s. national - ap to my yahoo!

  by eliott c. mclaughlin, associated press writer .

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  True North

  Faithful Decry Foot-Washing Ban of Women
  Thu Apr 8,11:14 PM ET Add U.S. National - AP to My Yahoo!
  By ELIOTT C. McLAUGHLIN, Associated Press Writer
  
  ATLANTA - About 100 men and women gathered outside Atlanta's Roman Catholic cathedral Thursday to protest the archbishop's exclusion of women from the Holy Thursday foot-washing ritual. Contrary to the order from Archbishop John Donoghue, the protesters said the rite should include everyone.

  [I couldn't get this to format right, but for the full story, paste the following into your browser's address box:

  http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=519&ncid=519&e=24&u=/ap/20040409/ap_on_re_us/foot_washing_ban_10

  ]
  
  I guess if JW women can't carry a microphone why should Catholic women be able to wash feet? What do you think?